We've been working with a trainer, who I have a lot of faith in, for my 5 year old Husky, Sydney's dog aggression. I feel that I have realistic expectations for the ultimate results- I don't expect her to be able to get along with every dog in every situations and I don't expect her to be able to playfully rough-house with other dogs. All I want and expect is for her to be able to tolerate the presence of other dogs and I know it will be a slow process.I've been working with her consistently and frequently on what the trainer has told us to focus on. We meet with the trainer once a week and go to group classes with that trainer twice a month.There was a loose dog at the park where we walk today and I did what the trainer has told me to do in such a situation. The dog was about 5 or 10 feet away at it's closest. Sydney proceeded to freak out and bit my leg several times as I struggled to control her.More details on the way...Update:I think you can only attribute bites to isolated incidents so much... once she bites 5 or 6 times, it's becoming too much of a norm. The trainer is working with us on her on-leash obedience and providing us with controlled interactions with other dogs. We've mastered "heel" quite successfully and we're now working on increasing her stay time and reliable recall. We're currently at a 4-5 minute stay and working toward a 20 minute stay, as well as working toward off leash heel. (I of course have no intention of allowing her off leash in an uncontrolled environment.) We have her heel at the approach of other dogs and if she flips out, she receives a verbal correction and is commanded to sit (once we are out of range of the other dog.) This is what I attempted today- she sat, but simultaneously had her way with my leg as she protested.For those of you who don't know the whole situation, she's a wonderful dog otherwise. Obedient in the house and good natured with all people.Update 3:I never wanted to muzzle her but I'm starting to feel that it may be necessary. My only misgivings with muzzling now are the effects that it would have on training. I've found, with dogs I've worked with professionally, that as soon as a dog is muzzled, he becomes submissive. While submission isn't unfavorable, I believe that it would be counterproductive to achieve submissiveness through use of a muzzle- because as soon as the muzzle comes off, the dog regains the dominant mindset.. Created by Boss. pets-en - dogs-en

A downward spiral...?

May 2021 6 71 Report

A downward spiral...?

We've been working with a trainer, who I have a lot of faith in, for my 5 year old Husky, Sydney's dog aggression. I feel that I have realistic expectations for the ultimate results- I don't expect her to be able to get along with every dog in every situations and I don't expect her to be able to playfully rough-house with other dogs. All I want and expect is for her to be able to tolerate the presence of other dogs and I know it will be a slow process.

I've been working with her consistently and frequently on what the trainer has told us to focus on. We meet with the trainer once a week and go to group classes with that trainer twice a month.

There was a loose dog at the park where we walk today and I did what the trainer has told me to do in such a situation. The dog was about 5 or 10 feet away at it's closest. Sydney proceeded to freak out and bit my leg several times as I struggled to control her.

More details on the way...

Update:

I think you can only attribute bites to isolated incidents so much... once she bites 5 or 6 times, it's becoming too much of a norm.

The trainer is working with us on her on-leash obedience and providing us with controlled interactions with other dogs. We've mastered "heel" quite successfully and we're now working on increasing her stay time and reliable recall. We're currently at a 4-5 minute stay and working toward a 20 minute stay, as well as working toward off leash heel. (I of course have no intention of allowing her off leash in an uncontrolled environment.)

We have her heel at the approach of other dogs and if she flips out, she receives a verbal correction and is commanded to sit (once we are out of range of the other dog.) This is what I attempted today- she sat, but simultaneously had her way with my leg as she protested.

For those of you who don't know the whole situation, she's a wonderful dog otherwise. Obedient in the house and good natured with all people.

Update 3:

I never wanted to muzzle her but I'm starting to feel that it may be necessary. My only misgivings with muzzling now are the effects that it would have on training. I've found, with dogs I've worked with professionally, that as soon as a dog is muzzled, he becomes submissive. While submission isn't unfavorable, I believe that it would be counterproductive to achieve submissiveness through use of a muzzle- because as soon as the muzzle comes off, the dog regains the dominant mindset.

Pets / Dogs

Becky

Verified answer

What did your trainer tell you to do in this situation? Need more details to offer correct advice.

Thanks for the add'l info.

What you're dealing with isn't fear on her part so much as dominance. You're not alone. Many working breeds in particular are intolerant of 'outsider' dogs, yet can adapt and be fine with other members of 'their' pack. Mine are like this, but not as extreme. And you're right, they're fantastic dogs otherwise!!

While it's understandable to get bitten accidentally in the middle of a dog fight, you're taking 'frustration' bites....she can't get to the other dog so she channels her aggression to your leg, hand, whatever is in front of her. Mine will grab a kong or stick and thrash, buck, 'kill' it when they're out in the yard (fenced) and see a dog they'd love to have a go at, but can't get to ;^) Same type of frustration, different circumstances.

Your trainer is on the right track but you must step it up a notch. Are you correcting her the second she even sees/hears another dog ? They need to be stopped BEFORE the trouble starts. You see the slightest potential, nip it in the bud with a 'don't even think about it' attitude. This way you avoid fighting her 'IN DRIVE', where she's no longer thinking about you, she's on auto pilot.

This is sometimes easily acheived, just out-thinking your dog. Other times (I suspect in your case) it's not, and you'll have to decide if you want to continue to work on it, accept her limits, or give her to an experienced trainer. You ARE in a downward spiral and must resolve this for both your sake and your dogs.

It's impossible to cover this subject in a few short paragraphs so I'll try to summarize .

She bites, you retreat, and with repetition the negative impact on your bond is beginning to take it's toll. You must establish yourself as alpha; that means getting the last 'word' in your situation. Her size presents a challenge but you MUST win the physical battle if/when preventative steps fail. She must become more worried about YOU than other dogs if the behavior is to stop. Wear protective clothing, get a good heavy duty working dog muzzle, collar, leash.

If your trainer has experience with working dogs, great. If not, it may be time to contact one. Police K9, military,schutzhund, etc. deal with dog aggression in different ways aimed at establishing dominance over their dogs. It ain't clicker training, but it's not abusive and it's far more effective than ordinary 'pet' obedience.

Good Luck and whatever the outcome, cheers to you for being a responsible dog owner!

EDIT: Good observations on the muzzle. Hopefully I can give some clarification. Primary objective w/ muzzling is of course to avoid injury. However just like any other training device, it's important to get the dog used to it *before* going on the training field to address problem behavior. Put it on at home in relaxed conditions. It needs to be sturdy but comfortable, the type used by professionals, not the Petsmart and Vet's office variety that are small and restrictive.

Associate the muzzle w/ favorite treats, car rides, other positive things before attempting a training session.

In fact I'd recommend taking a couple weeks break before beginning a new training program, which would work out well for muzzle conditioning.

By the way; is she 'talking' to you in that picture? Very cute!

Kiss Me Deadly

I'd say at the very least you should muzzle her when you take her out, starting right now. Don't even take the chance that she could bite someone.

I don't want to say this, and I know you don't want to hear it, but she may not ever be trustworthy in certain situations, even with extensive training, and even if she continues to improve overall. I don't know if you'd ever be able to let your guard down with her, and you won't always know ahead of time what might set her off.

I would ask the trainer to honestly evaluate the situation, or even consult a different trainer. As the dog is, she's a liability to you, and the result could be tragic.

koehlerdogtraining ©

No downward spiral

What you have is a case of re-directed aggression and there are three ways to fix it:

1. Remove the dog from the stimulus;

2. Remove the stimulus from the dog;

3. Change the dog's response to the stimulus.

Tell your trainer that you have a component of "re-directed aggression." I am guessing that he/she does not know, as when it is known (up-front) it is generally dealt with very early on in the training program.

That said, if the trainer knows about the problem and is not dealing with it, or is not sure how, then you need to find another trainer ... the problem(s) you have descirbed about this dog do not spell "Kill It," rather they express "Help - I have a problem biter/fighter."

It can most likely be made more manageable.

Tony Ancheta